January 1, 200817 yr Why would christians try to convince people that they really have a God, why would christians think that their religion is the right one, and the other like thousand religions are bullshit?
January 1, 200817 yr lol, label yourself like the religious kind. you sir, are the dumbshit I haven't labeled myself religious anywhere. My quote was a constructive question that has been asked by philosophers for ages. We take the idea of "God" (just that, an idea) and apply our own perceptions and beliefs of what it should be. Religions are bred from this and stupidity as well. Read the my full statement next time retard.
January 1, 200817 yr Jedi Pimp;536071']man created religion man is fallible therefore religion is fallible I've found in my debate with Christians that they will attempt to dodge this bullet by saying that "Christianity is a relationship, not a religion." Of course, it begs asking why they would follow any of Paul's teaching or *GASP*, any of the Old Testament.
January 1, 200817 yr tl;dc you're problem in the end. Leave it to Christians who can't reply back with a logical conclusion when they have their asses whipped in a debate. Get the fuck out of here.
January 2, 200817 yr I could infact reply but I truely don't feel like reading a book's worth of non-sense and ignorant replies. We could go on for weeks and at the end of the day it boils down to faith. I have faith that God is real, and my faith is supported by fact that I have seen him work in MY life. I can not force any of you to see my points, nor can I force any of you to change religions. I have not tried to sway any of you from your belief systems, nor will I attempt to. I am merely defending the way I believe... Truth is I don't care what happens to any of you...Call me a bad Christian, I will admit it's a sin to not care...but I am not perfect nor do i claim to be perfect. I give props to John_Winthrop for even considering the possibility instead of being so locked up in his own arrogance to attack someone who merely tries to defend his religion....tries to defend what he believes.
January 2, 200817 yr I could infact reply but I truely don't feel like reading a book's worth of non-sense and ignorant replies. We could go on for weeks and at the end of the day it boils down to faith. I have faith that God is real, and my faith is supported by fact that I have seen him work in MY life. I can not force any of you to see my points, nor can I force any of you to change religions. I have not tried to sway any of you from your belief systems, nor will I attempt to. I am merely defending the way I believe... Truth is I don't care what happens to any of you...Call me a bad Christian, I will admit it's a sin to not care...but I am not perfect nor do i claim to be perfect. I give props to John_Winthrop for even considering the possibility instead of being so locked up in his own arrogance to attack someone who merely tries to defend his religion....tries to defend what he believes. I was a Christian for 14 years and I didn't see a damn thing in it in retrospect. All the so called "healings" yet all of them by modern medicine, the so called "miracles" with not a shred of proof. Faith is a construct that ever religion in the world carries, yet they all claim they have the universal truth to everything. It's in your belief that your religion is the correct one and the end result is that all those who didn't believe are burning in a lake of fire. So fuck you. Sometimes beliefs are not enough, and at the very least, a horror to justify.
January 2, 200817 yr The difference between belief and fact To believe in something is not the same as knowing something. Intrinsic to the concept of belief is implication that there is an opposite to belief, disbelief. Not everyone will believe something is true, but all sane and rational people will acknowledge an observable fact. I can claim that I believe that it will rain at 3:00 AM, six years from today, and someone may agree with me and believe the same thing. If I hold a rock, and drop it, all who are present will acknowledge that a rock had been dropped...unless they are just choosing to be childish, whimsical, or are a philosophy major. The difference between the matter of the rock and the matter of the rain, is the difference between an observable fact, and a thought accepted as a fact. One is present, provable, undeniable and concrete, the other, howsoever fervently believed, is not. The rain could come, my belief about it could be true enough, but there is no observable proof. There is nothing to point to, nothing to show, nothing to touch, nothing to smell, nothing to be experienced by the senses of myself or others. The only way belief can be experienced is in the mind. Facts can be experienced both in the mind and by the senses...and what is more, unlike a mental hallucination, the sensory experience can be shared with others. It is a common error of human beings to allow belief, to allow a mental construct accepted on faith, to become so important, so obsessive, that it is taken as the same thing as fact. Indeed, there are many emotional reasons why a person might be driven to do this, but it still remains that any belief is purely mental whatever it's origin, and the mind can be mistaken. This means that all beliefs have as part of them an implied doubt. Facts cannot be doubted, they are observably real. When belief is assumed to be fact, when this mistake is made by a mind clouded by a motivation to assume belief as fact, that belief is considered beyond doubt, just as is a fact. Beliefs beyond doubt are inherently dangerous. They are dangerous because they are often acted upon as though they were facts, and the inherent weakness of this is that a belief is not a fact. Beliefs can be, and often are, wrong. Children in our culture often believe in Santa Claus, in the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. To them, with their simple minds, these beliefs are facts. This is because very young children may not have developed sufficiently to discriminate between belief and fact. However even adults can fall prey to such immature thinking, because they are afraid, because they are disturbed, because they are mentally ill, because they are filled with excitement, or a whole host of reasons. Hallucinations can occur that seem so real that they convince the brain that it has experienced observable fact. Such events add false certainty to beliefs. Understanding always that beliefs are not facts, is the fundamental component of sanity. Confusing the two inevitably leads to catastrophe. If I believe that by rubbing a hunk of quartz I will gain the Power of Absolute Indestructibility, and I act on this belief as though it were a fact, I will quickly die under the metal onslaught of the first train I attempt to block. My belief might be true, but I have no proof. Acting as though I did have proof would lead to my destruction. When any belief is accepted as fact, catastrophe is inevitable. We are constantly bombarded by ideas, facts and beliefs in a muddled, often confusing mess. To make matters worse, we all must accept the experiences of others as facts simply to survive. There are so many facts now that for any individual to test even a fraction of them would be the work of a lifetime. There would be no time to live, if we had to prove even a portion of the collected facts of humanity. In order to be able to cope with life, we have to have facts to make decisions on. But mixed into these facts that we learn... and take on faith are real... are also many examples of nonsense and arbitrary belief, promoted as fact, by fanatical individuals. Fanatics are driven to promote their beliefs because of the conflict that occurs for them whenever their beliefs are challenged. To stop the feeling of conflict, the fanatic becomes compelled to convince everyone that their belief is fact, or, failing that, to destroy those who threaten the belief. Fanaticism is a dangerous mental illness. There is then a primary question to the individual, how to separate fact from belief, when so much of our knowledge is taken essentially on faith, on the assumption that we are being told factual things? There are some quick and simplistic tools that you can use to analyze information in order to roughly guess whether the information is fact, or truth. 1. Has this information been reliably verified by many different people? 2. Is there a way I can demonstrate it reliably, even if I choose not to? 3. Is this information that can be put to practical use by someone? 4. Does this agree well with what I already know to be fact? 5. Do I trust the motives of the information source? DANGEROUS BELIEFS Many of them are religious, some are purely social. Accepting these beliefs, or failing to question and discard them, can kill you. Morality is derived from religion, unlike ethics. There is no proof of the existence of any religion. That is why religions are called FAITHS. Religion is taken on faith, because it is impossible to prove: indeed some religions require absence of proof, in order to validate the importance of faith itself. Regardless of the religion, no matter what it may be, there is no way to put a soul in a jar and measure it, or to dissect god on a table. Devoid of proof, religions are beliefs. This means that any rules or laws or morality are not based on fact. Such things are arbitrary. Absolute Truth Exists. Why this is a Belief and Not a Fact: "Truth" is a mental definition. Truth cannot be pointed at, touched, or put in a jar. Truth is a concept, not an actual thing. Truth can be based on emotions, as in 'Emotional Truth', or even on best guesses. All truth is is an emotional measure of the veracity of information. Truth does not even automatically imply facts. What does this all mean? The beliefs that you hold, if unquestioned, can control your life, destroy your own happiness and the happiness of others, and lead to your own end. Only by keeping a flexible mind, devoid of any absolutes whatsoever, mindful that all information is questionable, and by remaining aware of the difference between belief and fact, can any person hope to function in a sane and rational manner. To the objectional person , this rejection of any absolute truth becomes vital. We exist in a world often controlled by arbitrary belief, and many of those beliefs are destructive and filled with mindless hate. To survive, one must never assume. It is important to remember that you alone in your own mind, and it is your responsibility to determine what information you act on. You must take responsibility for your own collection of facts and beliefs, and it is to your advantage to reject beliefs, however appealing or ingrained, that would lead to your own misery or destruction.
January 2, 200817 yr During my ban I have done many a contemplation and realization, and was able to come to an important conclusion regarding the existence of God. Long has the plague of Atheism been spreading through our Christian world to terrorize all humanity. I do agree, though, that there was good reason for it. How can we Christians really expect people to blindly believe in the stories from the Bible without any proper evidence of their occurrence? Well, I will now present to you not proof of Bible stories, but definite proof of the existence of God, which may help you to take up Christianity. Here is my logic: God as represented by Christians is a perfect, all-powerful being. Who is to say that this being exists, though? Well he is all-powerful, and if he does not exist, he will simply create himself. You might say, but he can't just create himself! Well, by the definition of an all-powerful being, he can create himself; he can do anything, even what cannot be done. It is somewhat of a difficult concept to grasp, and many of you are probably unwilling to accept it, but if you think about it you will realize that this argument is infallible and cannot be refuted. Therefore, God exists! catch 22. if somthing truly cannot be done, then it cannot be done even by an allpowerfull being, if it is, therfore possible to do it cannot be stated to be impossible. ergo, you are incorrect in your statment.
January 2, 200817 yr I was a Christian for 14 years and I didn't see a damn thing in it in retrospect. All the so called "healings" yet all of them by modern medicine, the so called "miracles" with not a shred of proof. Faith is a construct that ever religion in the world carries, yet they all claim they have the universal truth to everything. It's in your belief that your religion is the correct one and the end result is that all those who didn't believe are burning in a lake of fire. So fuck you. Sometimes beliefs are not enough, and at the very least, a horror to justify. I never claimed anything about 'healings' or 'miracles' I merely said I've seen God work in my life. I have seen many things that happened that truly make no sense. Things that only an all powerful being could make happen. Thats where my faith is strengthened. Yes I understand that ever religion falls on the fact of Faith...even Atheism is a type of faith. The difference is, that there is actual physical proof that the Bible is a non-fiction book. There have been scientists that believed in evolution, who have gone on expeditions to prove the Bible wrong that ended up changing their entire belief system when they found the truth. Again I am not forcing anything on you or anyone else, merely standing up for what I believe in. Yes I believe that anyone who does not Believe that Jesus died for them will spend eternity in Hell suffering for their sins...so why attack me for believing that? I've not attacked anyone for not believing it, I have merely stated what it is that I believe.
January 2, 200817 yr I never claimed anything about 'healings' or 'miracles' I merely said I've seen God work in my life. I have seen many things that happened that truly make no sense. Things that only an all powerful being could make happen. Thats where my faith is strengthened. Yes I understand that ever religion falls on the fact of Faith...even Atheism is a type of faith. The difference is, that there is actual physical proof that the Bible is a non-fiction book. There have been scientists that believed in evolution, who have gone on expeditions to prove the Bible wrong that ended up changing their entire belief system when they found the truth. Again I am not forcing anything on you or anyone else, merely standing up for what I believe in. Yes I believe that anyone who does not Believe that Jesus died for them will spend eternity in Hell suffering for their sins...so why attack me for believing that? I've not attacked anyone for not believing it, I have merely stated what it is that I believe. First of all, please tell me how "God" has "worked in your life." Secondly, there are several instances of the Bible that have been shown to be fiction. The story of creation, Noah's Ark, Joshua and supposedly "stopping the sun," and others. If you're saying that they can't be proven false, well you can't prove any negative a false. You can't prove there isn't an invisible unicorn up my ass, but do you believe it? You need to start naming these scientists. Because it is possibly the most immoral and retarded belief to ever possess of another human being? Tell me, what will happen to people who have never heard of your deity?
January 2, 200817 yr First of all, your attitude is exactly why Christians won't talk to people like you. You out right attack me for defending what I believe. Yet I have not said one thing about what you believe. I am not going to tell you what He has done in my life, you are not in my life and it shouldn't matter to you. No they have no been proven false, they have been theorized to be false. ;) Just like you say there is no hard proof to prove(which there is) there is no hard proof to disapprove. People who have never heard of my God, will have a second chance after the Rapture. There will be two profits sent to ensure that everyone has a chance to hear the name of God.
January 2, 200817 yr First of all, your attitude is exactly why Christians won't talk to people like you. You out right attack me for defending what I believe. Yet I have not said one thing about what you believe. I am not going to tell you what He has done in my life, you are not in my life and it shouldn't matter to you. No they have no been proven false, they have been theorized to be false. ;) Just like you say there is no hard proof to prove(which there is) there is no hard proof to disapprove. People who have never heard of my God, will have a second chance after the Rapture. There will be two profits sent to ensure that everyone has a chance to hear the name of God. Most of the time, the reason Christians won't talk to me is because they're only interested in converting me to their asinine beliefs that I already left. I know what they're game is. The other Christians don't even belief half the shit in the Bible to begin with, so I don't even consider them Christians, and lot of them are my friends. Of course, you have undeniable proof to yourself yet you're unable to share it. "Thou shalt not make bullshit stories." Then if I go by your logic, then you cannot say any other religion is wrong. In your rulebook, there is no such things as facts seeing as ANYTHING could happen apparently. What about the people who have already died? What is their fate?
January 2, 200817 yr Most of the time, the reason Christians won't talk to me is because they're only interested in converting me to their asinine beliefs that I already left. I know what they're game is. The other Christians don't even belief half the shit in the Bible to begin with, so I don't even consider them Christians, and lot of them are my friends. Of course, you have undeniable proof to yourself yet you're unable to share it. "Thou shalt not make bullshit stories." Then if I go by your logic, then you cannot say any other religion is wrong. In your rulebook, there is no such things as facts seeing as ANYTHING could happen apparently. What about the people who have already died? What is their fate? Yes I agree, most people are completely oblivious as to what is really in the Bible. Until they actually read the Bible how could they know? Yes I have undeniable proof that He is real and has worked in my life. I could rant all day about what I've seen him do. But simply, you not knowing what my life is like it'd be easy for you to shoot down anything I say. So I will not waste my time trying to paint a picture of my life. By my logic? No by what I've been saying. I've not even argued why Christianity is the truth. I've merely presented you with what I believe. And by what I've said yes any religion could be correct. But what I personally know....that's not true. (Come on do you really believe we evolved from cosmic slime?) As for those who have already died, I truly do not know. I am far from a Biblical Scholar, I've in fact not read the entire Bible. But I was raised as a Missionary kid, and have been studying the Bible in my own time along with my Family since as far back as I can remember. Please excuse me for not knowing the answer to that question. I do wonder why you decided to change religions, or more so why did you stop being a Christian and as a result now judge those of us who are? I did nothing to you, so why attack me over my beliefs?
January 2, 200817 yr Yes I agree, most people are completely oblivious as to what is really in the Bible. Until they actually read the Bible how could they know? Yes I have undeniable proof that He is real and has worked in my life. I could rant all day about what I've seen him do. But simply, you not knowing what my life is like it'd be easy for you to shoot down anything I say. So I will not waste my time trying to paint a picture of my life. By my logic? No by what I've been saying. I've not even argued why Christianity is the truth. I've merely presented you with what I believe. And by what I've said yes any religion could be correct. But what I personally know....that's not true. (Come on do you really believe we evolved from cosmic slime?) As for those who have already died, I truly do not know. I am far from a Biblical Scholar, I've in fact not read the entire Bible. But I was raised as a Missionary kid, and have been studying the Bible in my own time along with my Family since as far back as I can remember. Please excuse me for not knowing the answer to that question. I do wonder why you decided to change religions, or more so why did you stop being a Christian and as a result now judge those of us who are? I did nothing to you, so why attack me over my beliefs? Because most of them haven't. The main reason I did leave Christianity is because I DID read the Bible. Through the slaughtering of children and the assholeness of Yahweh, I fail to see why it is hailed as such a great literary work. If what you believe isn't the truth, then why belief at all? By the way, great way of butchering what evolution is and assuming that I hold evolution to be correct. Assumptions are the mother of all fuck-ups. I'm not judging you, I'm throwing you out on a limb. I'm questioning you as to why you still hold these beliefs to be correct, and you say you have these personal proofs, but refuse to share them?
January 2, 200817 yr i am an athiest. i have christian friends, i have a buddist friend and i dont question their beliefs. what people want to think is perfectly fine by me, however this stops being ok when it encroaches upon other peoples rights, or freedoms or, when it comes to teaching others what to belive. I personaly find some people who promote their religion digracefull. notably, ignorant preachers on TV in america, terrorists, and those who try to impose their beliefs upon children who dont necisserily want to belive there views via the education system. i want to recognise the fact that no single person could ever represent an entire race, ethnic group, religion, or anyother group or sect you wish to define. however a group must be held accountable for those that do promote their place in scociety, it is them that allow them to do so and it is that groups fault for who ends up doing the job, be it a TV evangelists, suicide bombers or simply a senator or local counciler. I respect what Malum says about how is belief in an all powerfull being has affected his life, and good for him, hes able to have faith in somthing although the current trend, globaly, is against him. however i dont agree that atheism is based upon faith, rather, its based purley upon proof and the evidence infront of us and who weighs what as carrying more weight in the minds eye. i dont for one second doubt there was not somone called jesus, like the name mohammed today, there are millions of people sharing a name. however i doubt the miricales that supposedly happened. yes ofcourse people will convert to christianity however the truth is and will always be veiled from our eyes, without 1st hand evidence of anything how can you be sure that it happened? skankuser1 as abandoned his faith, and yet i fail to see him burning along side hitler, in a lake of fire. why would an all powerfull being keep him alive at all when killing him would prevent him from poluting the minds of people such as yourself Malum? also surely there are worse pains than a lake of fire. is that the best a 1500 year old book could come up with? although the contradiction of using absolute truth in an argument before saying that we should keep our minds free of absolutes undermines myriads contribution at the end, the majority of it is good (un fortunatley uncommon) common sense. personaly i belive that any being that demands unwavering obediance and belief cannot be a force of good, it is only your opinion that matters in the end. unfortunatley there are the ignorant, the stupid and the complacent, who do not question what they are told, who do not go out and try things for themselfs and who do not follow through conclusions to the very end, although there are scarce few to be found. in the end it is a matter of belief. yes, your god can exist, be it in your own mind, or that of a billion others, however you cannot expect, imply, or demand that others should share your oppinion or belief. i could go on all night, however this seems as good as place as any to end. tl;dr if you didnt read it, dont try, you probably wont get past the bit where it says "athiest" without you having to go for a lay down to stop the thumping in your head. PS. i find it hard to find any good in the fact that whilst the devil according to the bible killed 10, god however kills 2,038,344. if the killing of a human is wrong then dosent that make god 203,834.4 times more evil than the devil?
January 2, 200817 yr Because most of them haven't. The main reason I did leave Christianity is because I DID read the Bible. Through the slaughtering of children and the assholeness of Yahweh, I fail to see why it is hailed as such a great literary work. If what you believe isn't the truth, then why belief at all? By the way, great way of butchering what evolution is and assuming that I hold evolution to be correct. Assumptions are the mother of all fuck-ups. I'm not judging you, I'm throwing you out on a limb. I'm questioning you as to why you still hold these beliefs to be correct, and you say you have these personal proofs, but refuse to share them? by you...I meant anyone who is reading...not YOU specifically. I would not assume you yourself would believe in Evolution. ;) You seem to be more intelligent than someone who would believe in such a thing. I don't need to explain why I believe what I do. The same reason why I've not asked why you believe what you do. And once again, I could very easily given you a specific instance of when God has worked in my life you simply wouldn't see it as God working as you know nothing about my life. For example, just recently...for Christmas, we as a family decided to give money away to a family we felt needed it. We choose a family who we thought needed it because they didn't have much and it was on a whim that they got the money. Come to find out that family had very little money and what money they did have was ALL spent on keeping the electricity on in their home. The money we gave them not only made their Christmas but come to find out their daughter was in need of a surgery on her lungs so that she could function in a day to day life without depending on an inhaler. God not only put on our heart to give money to this family(This was the first time we've been able to give money away) he also provided the money to give. NO ONE knew what that family was going through, yet we were able to have a sum of money to give away...and it was random that they were the ones to get it? No, you don't randomly give money and have it go to someone that not only could use it, but needed it to survive. as for any BS you want to give to contradict that...go ahead but it will all be in vein as you know nothing at all of me or my family. EDIT: Doody in fact that is faith. You believe what is presented to you as fact....is actual fact. As you said one person can not represent an entire belief system...so one man's fact may be another man's fiction. If you want to break it down....believe that these letters printed on a screen spell words is a faith, because to some these letters mean nothing at all. When I mentioned Atheism being a faith, I merely meant a belief system. Believing there is no god is still a faith that there is no god. As according to Atheism "God isn't real" but there is no physical proof that there is nor isn't a god. I wasn't trying to shoot down what you believe to be true. Faith - confidence or trust in a person or thing
January 2, 200817 yr The bible is ridiculous, and so are all the other religions. There is no such thing in god and if you're older than 20 and don't realize this you're a fucking moron. If your read the bible like any other book you can tell its fictional. If God is so perfect then why are there hundreds of contradictions within the bible.
January 2, 200817 yr Satan is obviously the true saviour of mankind. A god that keeps his creations from becoming like him is afraid of what might happen if his creations happen to consume an apple and become truly self aware rather than mere toys for his own amusement.
January 2, 200817 yr "The greatest trick the Devil has ever played, is convincing the World that he does not exist"
January 2, 200817 yr "The greatest trick the Devil has ever played, is convincing the World that he does not exist" So you like "The Usual Suspects" as well? I hope you were just quoting the movie and not bring up a horrible philosophical position.
