January 30, 200817 yr Jedi Pimp;542612']If you are going to say someone is wrong explain why. I am not arguing for wheel speed. I can give a fuck about wheel speed. Nor did I say the plane was powered by its wheels. Read my post again. then come back and lick my ass. Let me say this again for the mentally disabled.... The plane will not achieve lift because no air will be passing under/over it's wings. Also, I was being fictitious when I suggested that the Mythbuster guys aim fans at the plane while it was on the treadmill. However, I would argue that if the Mythbuster guys could conduct this experiment in a wind tunnel while the plane was on the treadmill then the plane would fly, but only because enough air was being pushed by the wind tunnel to allow the plane to achieve lift. Ok, explain to me just why no air would be moving over the wings, my last post pretty much explained why there will be. At the part of the video where he is trying to get the plane stable on the treadmill there is plenty of air moving over the wings. When the plane is stopped on the treadmill though, that is not what the experiment is saying what should be happening since the plane is not actually moving and the treadmill is, the experiment says that the treadmill and the plane are to be moving at the same speed so if they do move at the same speed the plane will still be moving forwards
January 30, 200817 yr The plane can move on the belt. If the plane moves forward, then wind will be going over the wings. If wind goes over the wings lift is created. With lift come flight. It has been done in many experiments, all of which concluded the above facts. You people seem to be thinking that the plane is stuck in place on the belt. The plane moves forward along the belt just as it does any other runway.
January 30, 200817 yr Jedi Pimp;542628'] Assumptions: - Conveyor belt is fast enough to counter act thrust of plane. That is where you are incorrect. The belt has nothing to do with the thrust of the plane. All the belt does is spin the wheels. The plane's thrust comes from its propellers acting upon the still air around it. This moves the plane forward as it does on any runway, creating forward speed and therefor wind. Which creates lift. MBsters aren't the first to think of this...
January 30, 200817 yr Jedi Pimp;542628']OK lets make some assumptions here because I do not see people talking about it at a more detailed level. Assumptions: - Conveyor belt is fast enough to counter act thrust of plane. - Planes engine is not powerful enough to generate its own lift by passing air under wings. If the conveyor belt is able to offset the speed generated by the thrust of the plane's engines, then the plane will not achieve lift because there will be zero air flow across the wings. So, unless at some point the thrust of the plane's engines overcome the max speed of the conveyor belt (as shown in that video when the plane accelerated faster then the belt and it went forward) it will not fly. I seriously don't get it with you Jedi, you really, really should understand this. Your second assumption makes no sense though, how the hell do planes fly then?
January 30, 200817 yr Fuck I am lost with you Jedi. Everything you are saying makes me think that you should understand that it takes off. The air is stationary, airplanes fly by forward thrust through stationary air. The airplane on the conveyor belt can move with ease no matter what the treadmills speed it. So if the airplane can move (which it does), it goes through the air and when it goes through the air the wings make lift. From what you have been saying you are making me believe that airplanes need a fan in front of them or a hell of a lot of wind to move through the air but all they need is forward thrust.
January 31, 200817 yr Fuck I am lost with you Jedi. Everything you are saying makes me think that you should understand that it takes off. The air is stationary, airplanes fly by forward thrust through stationary air. The airplane on the conveyor belt can move with ease no matter what the treadmills speed it. So if the airplane can move, it goes through the air and when it goes through the air the wings make lift. From what you have been saying you are making me believe that airplanes need a fan in front of them or a hell of a lot of wind to move through the air but all they need is forward thrust. No, they CAN fly the air, how many times do I have to explain it? Let's see your degree in aerodynamics before we argue any further.
January 31, 200817 yr No, they CAN fly the air, how many times do I have to explain it? Let's see your degree in aerodynamics before we argue any further. WHAT THE FUCK are you talking about... I just spent forever talking about how the fucking thing flies you fucking retard. You obviously didn't get a degree in English. The second fucking line says that I think and know that it will take off. And when the plane applies thrust, it moves forward Anyways http://mythbustersresults.com/episode97 Fuck all you non-believers
January 31, 200817 yr For all of you who saw the Mythbusters episodes where they claimed that the plane can take off, their experimentation process was bogus. These are the constraints that must be followed for the phenomenon of not taking off to occur: The conveyor belt (or tarp) must be moving at the same velocity as the plane The tarp and plane must begin at rest, start at the same time, and equally accelerate to the same velocity There is no natural wind, whatsoever Yes I KNOW that a plane moves by the propellers pushing air, but all this does is cause the plane to move forward on its wheels, just like a car engine to a car. What actually creates the lift is when air is moving past the wings of the plane, as determined by the equation L = (1/2) d v^2 s CL (as previously mentioned in this thread). If the constraints I mentioned are satisfied, the plane engine (yes, by wind, I know) will be pushing the plane (on its wheels mind you) forward at the same speed that the belt is moving in the opposite direction under it. The plane will stay in the same location (i.e. it will not displace any distance) because the net velocity is 0, because the plane has not lifted yet, and because there is no wind moving past the wings. Mythbusters did not ensure that the tarp and plane were moving at the same velocity, or start at the same time. Their experiment was bullshit because they did not properly ensure constants in all other areas as are pertaining to the constraints listed. In summary, I win, and Mythbusters sucks because (gasp) they're not real scientists.
January 31, 200817 yr Author http://mythbustersresults.com/episode97 Fuck all you non-believers win In summary, I win, and Mythbusters sucks because (gasp) they're not real scientists. if you look in the credits, there is a team of real scientists that do make sure that discovery channel does not put false information on their tv shows. just like bear grills has a team of survival experts, he just demonstrates for the tv show.
January 31, 200817 yr You know what would make more sense? The ship in Futurama, where the ship moves the universe around the ship, it doesn't actually move itself.
January 31, 200817 yr Jedi Pimp;542685']Told you that shit would fly made me lol. every one just needs to have <3 k?
January 31, 200817 yr made me lol. every one just needs to have <3 k? Yeah I need a fucking hug right now. To the troll who keeps getting banned: If the planes speed is zero, then wouldn't the belts speed have to also be zero? I think you are thinking that the conveyor belt must be moving at the speed which counteracts the wheels and not the plane itself. If the plane moves forward 10 m/s, lets say the wheels move at the same speed. When the conveyor belt moves backwards at 10 m/s then the wheels will spin at 20 m/s and for this example (just to show there is a little friction) we'll say the plane moves at 9.5 m/s. But the friction that makes the plane lose that 0.5 m/s is all the friction there is going to be for the most part that will slow the plane down. Watch the youtube video so you can understand that. So if they were to accelerate at the same speed: Planes speed: 0 -> 9.5 -> 19.5 -> 29.5 Conveyor belts speed: 0 -> 10 -> 20 -> 30 Wheels speed: 0 -> 20 -> 40 -> 60 As you can see the plane still gains speed which means it will still be able to take off.
January 31, 200817 yr If the constraints I mentioned are satisfied, the plane engine (yes, by wind, I know) will be pushing the plane (on its wheels mind you) forward at the same speed that the belt is moving in the opposite direction under it. The plane will stay in the same location (i.e. it will not displace any distance) because the net velocity is 0, because the plane has not lifted yet, and because there is no wind moving past the wings. Mythbusters did not ensure that the tarp and plane were moving at the same velocity, or start at the same time. Their experiment was bullshit because they did not properly ensure constants in all other areas as are pertaining to the constraints listed. In summary, I win, and Mythbusters sucks because (gasp) they're not real scientists. They determined the plane takes off at 25mph and they drove the truck backwards at 25mph. As long as the truck was going 25mph before liftoff (which it was) then the test is a success, it doesn't matter who started first. Why do people think the conveyor has the power to OVERCOME the thrust of the engines?!!! Do you HONESTLY believe a conveyor belt spinning the plane's wheels backwards creates enough friction to OVERCOME the thrust of the engine? If you stand on a moving treadmill in roller blades, you ARE ABLE to pull yourself forward on the treadmill with your arms. It is the exact. same. principle.
January 31, 200817 yr They determined the plane takes off at 25mph and they drove the truck backwards at 25mph. As long as the truck was going 25mph before liftoff (which it was) then the test is a success, it doesn't matter who started first. Why do people think the conveyor has the power to OVERCOME the thrust of the engines?!!! Do you HONESTLY believe a conveyor belt spinning the plane's wheels backwards creates enough friction to OVERCOME the thrust of the engine? If you stand on a moving treadmill in roller blades, you ARE ABLE to pull yourself forward on the treadmill with your arms. It is the exact. same. principle. People already didn't understand my skateboard on treadmill example on the first page... And lol at Jedi. Just say it flies and close the damn thread already.
