Posted July 10, 200519 yr There have been several threads lately that have spiraled into arguments about vb, with the "cool" crowd saying its sucks and is for little babies because it cant do everything in the world and requires runtime dlls, while everyone else acknowledges it is a very useful language for the windows operating system and just because it is used in teaching "beginners programming" doesnt mean you cant be advanced at it. cliffs: --vb good --vb not perfect --lets not hijack every thread with the same argument, this is afterall a help forum --discuss, although I expect an obligatory "k" or "raged" reply from someone, this is after all the mygot forums. cliffs of cliffs: too long didn't read, kekeke
July 10, 200519 yr woot, a good thread for once.... and as of now I will be joining the Pro-VB crowd... as I am an Intermediate Visual Basic Programmer with many views on how Visual Basic compared to other languages.
July 10, 200519 yr Three reasons why VB sucks. 1. The syntax is fugly. 2. The resulting file size is terrible. 3. Steam was made in VB. C rocks.
July 10, 200519 yr Author psyphen said: Three reasons why VB sucks. 1. The syntax is fugly. 2. The resulting file size is terrible. 3. Steam was made in VB. C rocks. 1. no its not, its very easy to understand 2. thats what packing is for 3. plenty of crap was made in c/java/pascal/whatever
July 10, 200519 yr greeneyes said: 3. plenty of crap was made in c/java/pascal/whatever no, crap is made in java...
July 10, 200519 yr psyphen said: Three reasons why VB sucks. 1. The syntax is fugly. 2. The resulting file size is terrible. 3. Steam was made in VB. C rocks. lol, VB has way easier to understand code-style, no need to end every fricken line and what not. VB has a lot of Implicit functions that helps make VB a RAD language. VB <> C/C++ but definately just as powerfull or clsoe to it.
July 11, 200519 yr - When VB applications get complicated, they become imcomprehensible. - VB syntax is fugly, just give it up. - You can also pack C apps, and you can't pack VB apps smaller than C ones.
July 11, 200519 yr Author psyphen said: - When VB applications get complicated, they become imcomprehensible.[/Quote] Thats what top down design is for, any complicated program is incomprehensible with poor design psyphen said: - VB syntax is fugly, just give it up. how is it fugly?
July 11, 200519 yr psyphen said: - When VB applications get complicated, they become imcomprehensible. - VB syntax is fugly, just give it up. - You can also pack C apps, and you can't pack VB apps smaller than C ones. wrong, I can get a 75kb Binary down to 14kb check PSC
July 11, 200519 yr t3rm1ght you may not speak, you have only used VB. the only people who are permitted to reply to this thread from now on are people who have written programs (not including hello world) in all the languages they are arguing about. I have used VB, Java, C++, C, ASM, and python I personally prefer ASM for smaller programs and main OS components. and prefer C for larger more complicated programs. EDIT: wow, I just read through the thread again and realized how raged I am at people just saying shit about how VB is just as powerful as C/C++ when they havent even used both. RAWRRRRR!!!! ME RAGED!!!
July 11, 200519 yr n00body said: t3rm1ght you may not speak, you have only used VB. the only people who are permitted to reply to this thread from now on are people who have written programs (not including hello world) in all the languages they are arguing about. I have used VB, Java, C++, C, ASM, and python I personally prefer ASM for smaller programs and main OS components. and prefer C for larger more complicated programs. EDIT: wow, I just read through the thread again and realized how raged I am at people just saying shit about how VB is just as powerful as C/C++ when they havent even used both. RAWRRRRR!!!! ME RAGED!!! dont need to use C++ when you can read articles, reviews, tutorials, and other shit. thats what I do in my spare time... read.
July 11, 200519 yr psyphen said: - When VB applications get complicated, they become imcomprehensible. - VB syntax is fugly, just give it up. -Actually, VB.NET is really clean with a good design (using design patterns), and fully using OOP. C can become overwhelming once it hits the 4-digit lines of code, especially with the lack of support for namespaces. Also since C seperates its methods from structures, code is much more scattered. While it is possible to simulate some OOP concepts, these concepts tend to make the code messer. -Calling VB syntax ugly, is really a matter of opinion. I personally prefer C-style syntax myself.
July 11, 200519 yr VB teaches horrible programming practice, but as a rad tool it really does its' job I was forced to learn java in my comp sci class. The syntax and over all design is fine, but it is quite slow and requiring a vm on every machine it operates on is kind of unrealistic. c++ Haven't used it in years, currentlly relearning it. I like it, but for quick small programs I would prefer to use vb as it can do them faster with a better looking gui.
July 11, 200519 yr Visual Basic.NET offers better solutions toward the old alternatives. By simply incorporating OOP practices into Visual Basic, opens up a new avenue to better programming. In any case, I've seen pretty bad programming practices in a large range of programming languages, and in many cases it was the programmer and not the language that was at fault. As for Java being slow, since the program is JITed at runtime; and therefore, able to be optimized to the specific processor, can in theory outperform a native program. Of course, just as it is the case with compiled languages, depends heavily on the vm, and thus isn't really a problem of Java itself. I do agree on the jvm requirement though.
July 11, 200519 yr Quote I've seen pretty bad programming practices in a large range of programming languages, and in many cases it was the programmer and not the language that was at fault. This could be more of a most people who use vb figured it out on their own so it is more rampat in vb than other languages.
July 11, 200519 yr n00body said: t3rm1ght you may not speak, you have only used VB. the only people who are permitted to reply to this thread from now on are people who have written programs (not including hello world) in all the languages they are arguing about. I have used VB, Java, C++, C, ASM, and python I personally prefer ASM for smaller programs and main OS components. and prefer C for larger more complicated programs. EDIT: wow, I just read through the thread again and realized how raged I am at people just saying shit about how VB is just as powerful as C/C++ when they havent even used both. RAWRRRRR!!!! ME RAGED!!! ive written a calculator in C++, its over-complicated. anyways, here are the facts: VB pro: Easy syntax Good management (even in large files...use modules) Sockets (brilliant :rolleyes: ) Easy String manipulation prettymuch easy everything VB con: NO inline ASM (i hate shitty negro rigged ones, dont even mention them.) NO true DLLs (or so ive heard, there was thsi tutorial i found but i was to lazy to try it) NO injection (see true DLLs) NO real DirectX support(microsoft (below .NET)) C++ pro: Full directX support Multi-OS compatible Almost everything currently Programmically possible....possible. C++ con: Difficult to learn syntax that is all i can think of, for con, but its a big con.. then of course there is delphi, which is the basically the middleground.
July 11, 200519 yr C++ and assembly owns RHEEE Edit: Just read the above post. Delphi has a VB-like syntax, without the runtimes tho :) Which makes it an OK/good language.
July 11, 200519 yr VB sucks, personaly i like c# but thats only cos i like to do .NET stuff and its a mix of C and java, and i know java also, oh and it has serializable which owns all
July 11, 200519 yr Author ViperX said: C++ and assembly owns RHEEE Edit: Just read the above post. Delphi has a VB-like syntax, without the runtimes tho :) Which makes it an OK/good language. oh rather vb has has a delphi/pascal like syntax, as they where first :p
July 11, 200519 yr C/C++ syntax is NOT hard to understand. Quote If ( condition ) Then 'statement End If vs. Quote If ( condition ) { //statement } c++ syntax is more symbolized, instead of having to type lengthy shit. Quote Dim LOL As Integer vs. Quote int LOL; Also, you dont need to type c++ keywords with the first letter capitolized, which is a pain in the ass in VB. There are many more reasons why c-style syntax > vb, such as c++ commenting is much more versatile.
July 11, 200519 yr lsd4kids said: C/C++ syntax is NOT hard to understand. c++ syntax is more symbolized, instead of having to type lengthy shit. Also, you dont need to type c++ keywords with the first letter capitolized, which is a pain in the ass in VB. There are many more reasons why c-style syntax > vb, such as c++ commenting is much more versatile. The reason why I like VB syntax better... as it doesnt require that you have to make sure evreything is the same case, also... no need to end every line, and everything is so easy as far as writing it. As far as then length goes, intellisense now makes programming in VB reasonably quicker. I also like how VB declares variables, becuase they aren't just limited to Integers, Strings, Doubles, Longs, ect... You can have a variable as an object. Like...: Dim socket As Control Where say if you had a multi-socket application, you can use a variable to to say which one you want to use in a certain situation.
July 11, 200519 yr t3rm1ght said: dont need to use C++ when you can read articles, reviews, tutorials, and other shit. thats what I do in my spare time... read. yes, you do need to use it. right now you are clearly spouting other people's opinions that you found on the internet without any experience of your own. go learn C++/C and maybe even ASM (even though I know ur to fucking dumb to learn either) then you may speak again.
July 11, 200519 yr t3rm1ght said: I also like how VB declares variables, becuase they aren't just limited to Integers, Strings, Doubles, Longs, ect... You can have a variable as an object. Like...: Dim socket As Control Where say if you had a multi-socket application, you can use a variable to to say which one you want to use in a certain situation. You can declare objects in c++, aswell as defining your own - features of most languages these days :) I have to agree though that you really need to learn both languages before you can compare them otherwise you wont see the benifits of one over the other.
July 11, 200519 yr Niccuh said: Stop trying so hard. For once I agree. :stupid: Settle down chief. :poke: To each his own. :drama:
July 11, 200519 yr If you're going to use a RAD language, for god's sake use Delphi. The syntax is less ugly, it has more functionality, and it's not made by Microsoft. VB's syntax compared to C is completely lacking and unresourceful. It's BECAUSE of C's closing lines that it makes it more pliable than the VB syntax. From what I know you can't do something like "int i;char szString[1024];DWORD x;" all in one line in VB. Why's that? Because it doesn't have a end marker. ASM is awesome by the way, it's just difficult to learn. It's by far the leetest thing ever though, especially if you assemble in NASM, because that's the coolest oldschool assembler ever.
